preenfm Forum

PreenFM => preenfm2 and preenfm3 => Topic started by: dimifrag on January 16, 2014, 09:22:23 AM

Title: PreenFM2 More Waveforms Like the Ableton Live Operator?
Post by: dimifrag on January 16, 2014, 09:22:23 AM
Hi PreenFM2 Community!
It is possible to add more waveforms in PreenFM2 like the Ableton Operator e.x. Saw D?
Title: Re: PreenFM2 More Waveforms Like the Ableton Live Operator?
Post by: 6581punk on January 16, 2014, 09:57:45 AM
I don't think Operator is a classic FM synth, it looks more like a hybrid of analogue style synthesis and FM.

That's not to say that more waveforms aren't possible, but you aren't going be able to directly replicate the sounds of Operator with a Preen.

Proper FM has algorithms, early FM modes on analogue synths were just using one oscillator to modulate another. Looks like that is what Operator does?
Title: Re: PreenFM2 More Waveforms Like the Ableton Live Operator?
Post by: Xavier on January 16, 2014, 10:44:26 AM

Don't know about Operator.

But the preenFM2 wavetables are in the fast access memory of the MCU.
The available 64kB  are already full.

Title: Re: PreenFM2 More Waveforms Like the Ableton Live Operator?
Post by: dimifrag on January 16, 2014, 10:50:37 AM
how can make the saw d wave into preen fm to make a dub stabs?
Title: Re: PreenFM2 More Waveforms Like the Ableton Live Operator?
Post by: Xavier on January 16, 2014, 11:01:10 AM
how can make the saw d wave into preen fm to make a dub stabs?

1 - Get the PreenFM code on github.
2 - Get one cycle of the "saw d" wave,  turn it into a C float array of 1024 or 2048 values between -1.0 and 1.0.
3 - Modify the wave.c files and replace one of the waveforms buy yours.
4- recompile and flash the new firmware

Easy ? No ;-)

Xavier
Title: Re: PreenFM2 More Waveforms Like the Ableton Live Operator?
Post by: dimifrag on January 16, 2014, 11:05:38 AM
its not easy for me i suppose, i don't know how can change the waves from source code!  :-\
Title: Re: PreenFM2 More Waveforms Like the Ableton Live Operator?
Post by: 6581punk on January 16, 2014, 11:24:30 AM
It's not easy true. If you can get the source to compile locally then I'm sure it would be possible for someone to produce a patch to modify the firmware.

But you would have to lose a standard waveform to replace it with the new one, your firmware would then be incompatible with presets (not always such a bad thing ;) ).

To be honest, FM is less about the starting point (the waveform) and more about modifying the waveform with modulators and algorithms.

It seems Operator is concerned with filtering waveforms and applying some FM, which is close to the subtractive way of making sounds.

Title: Re: PreenFM2 More Waveforms Like the Ableton Live Operator?
Post by: Xavier on January 16, 2014, 11:49:14 AM
To be honest, FM is less about the starting point (the waveform) and more about modifying the waveform with modulators and algorithms.

What 6581punk says ;-)


Quote from: dimifrag
I  don't know how can change the waves from source code!

That's not the hardest point.
Give me the table required in step 2 and i can compile it for you.

Expected format can be seen here :
https://github.com/Ixox/preenFM2/blob/master/waveforms/waves.c

You'll have to investigate and work on your own for this step 2.

Xavier
Title: Re: PreenFM2 More Waveforms Like the Ableton Live Operator?
Post by: kuzma_p on January 16, 2014, 12:54:39 PM
Operator is kinda improved 4OP FM with ability to draw your own WF

(http://wikisound.org/images/1/15/Operator.jpg)
(http://wikisound.org/images/7/7e/Operator_global_display.jpg)

+ Filter

I think that having 6 ops instead of 4 you can freely mimick Saw D with  2 OPs somehow
Title: Re: PreenFM2 More Waveforms Like the Ableton Live Operator?
Post by: kuzma_p on January 16, 2014, 01:01:33 PM
(http://img294.imageshack.us/img294/8171/feedbackp.png)

SwD looks like ordinary Saw WF
Title: Re: PreenFM2 More Waveforms Like the Ableton Live Operator?
Post by: 6581punk on January 16, 2014, 09:14:57 PM
Perhaps someone can create a little Java app that lets you draw a waveform and the output is a C data required?
Title: Re: PreenFM2 More Waveforms Like the Ableton Live Operator?
Post by: dimifrag on January 23, 2014, 05:51:52 PM
thanks all for your answer!
kuzma_p you have way to make the SawD WF with PreenFM2?
Title: Re: PreenFM2 More Waveforms Like the Ableton Live Operator?
Post by: JLagadec on September 11, 2015, 11:57:47 PM
Hi everybody,

I transcribed waveform sawD under the agreed form (1024 values):

Quote
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Could someone help me to integrate this waveform to the code?

Julien
Title: Re: PreenFM2 More Waveforms Like the Ableton Live Operator?
Post by: matrix12x on September 12, 2015, 01:29:41 PM
Hi,
I had added a formant waveform and compiled my own copy of the os. It was super easy, and everyone on this forum was extremely helpful.

see this post:
http://ixox.fr/forum/index.php?topic=63412.0
Title: Re: PreenFM2 More Waveforms Like the Ableton Live Operator?
Post by: JLagadec on September 12, 2015, 02:40:30 PM
Thank you!

I will seriously read this post.

Julien
Title: Re: PreenFM2 More Waveforms Like the Ableton Live Operator?
Post by: SirPrimalform on September 14, 2015, 12:23:09 AM
I'll have to look into this too as I'd love to add some custom waveforms.
Title: Re: PreenFM2 More Waveforms Like the Ableton Live Operator?
Post by: Xavier on September 14, 2015, 09:25:21 AM
You'll notice that in firmware 2.00 some waveforms are not anymore in CCM (quick) RAM, and it works fine.
So add your waveforms at the bottom of "waves.c" without
 __attribute__ ((section(".ccm")))
And you should be able to add a few.

My only remarks is that i'm not sure about adding complex waveform in a FM synthesis.
Hmm.. Maybe for the carrier operators... 
If you create interesting patch with this don't hesitate to share  ;)

Xavier

Title: Re: PreenFM2 More Waveforms Like the Ableton Live Operator?
Post by: SirPrimalform on September 14, 2015, 01:55:39 PM
I'm actually looking to add simpler waveforms in some ways, at least less complicated than the included saw and square! A bandlimited triangle would be a nice one, I really like the sound of triangle-on-triangle FM. Just a bit more complex than sines alone.

I also want to add (softly) bandlimited saw and squares. Hard bandlimiting (where the harmonics are normal level up until the point they suddenly stop) sounds kind of like it's has a resonant filter on it (I guess your ear hears the top harmonic as a resonant peak). I'm plan to do some soft versions where the last few harmonics drop off a bit. The other ideas I had were simple waveforms with the fundamental and just one or two harmonics.

I have written a few additive waveform generators in Jesusonic so I just need to work out how to export them in the right format and set up the build environment for the firmware.

I remember you originally saying that the waveforms had to be in the quick RAM and so adding some required removal of others, but it's nice to hear that it's not the case any more and we can just append them. I feel bad suggesting this because you already implemented one of my suggestions really well and really quickly, but what about an option to load a custom waveform into RAM from a folder in the USB drive? It would mean new waveforms could be added without building custom firmware and reflashing. Of course, I might be the only person that would use it so it's possibly not worth it.

Title: Re: PreenFM2 More Waveforms Like the Ableton Live Operator?
Post by: matrix12x on September 15, 2015, 02:05:29 AM
I think this would be an awesome idea, being able to load new waveforms via USB. Or maybe via an editor?
I think a version of the Shruthi-1 allowed this or something like this for the wavetables.
Title: Re: PreenFM2 More Waveforms Like the Ableton Live Operator?
Post by: Xavier on September 15, 2015, 09:17:00 AM
I also like the idea of loading waveform from the USB.
The problem is preset compatibility between preenFM.
But that can be fun.

I try to make a new feature with each new Kits batch.
This one could be for next run  :)



Title: Re: PreenFM2 More Waveforms Like the Ableton Live Operator?
Post by: matrix12x on September 18, 2015, 04:26:05 AM
This would be a super exciting new feature.  :D
Title: Re: PreenFM2 More Waveforms Like the Ableton Live Operator?
Post by: kuzma_p on September 18, 2015, 10:32:28 AM
Yeah indeed.
Title: Re: PreenFM2 More Waveforms Like the Ableton Live Operator?
Post by: JLagadec on September 20, 2015, 06:50:57 PM
If you add this feature, I created you a lot of new super patches!

Julien
Title: Re: PreenFM2 More Waveforms Like the Ableton Live Operator?
Post by: windspirit on September 22, 2015, 08:46:23 AM
I feel like an easy waveform modification (without having actually looked at the code) would be to allow PWM on the squarewave.  You could even ditch a wavetable if you just made the PWM/ squarewave selection into a waveshaped sawtooth wave, where the output is just ( sawtooth wave > PWM threshold ).  This could yield some compelling FM textures and add a modulation destination in the matrix.

First post btw ;)
Title: Re: PreenFM2 More Waveforms Like the Ableton Live Operator?
Post by: Xavier on September 22, 2015, 09:34:17 AM

Hi Windspirit and welcome,

PWM on the squarewave would add a HUGE CPU overhead. It's definitely not doable on the 192Mhz preenfm CPU which is already at 99% in heaviest scenario.
When using sin only, the number of possibility is already crazy when playing with complex FM algo.
Don't forget the randomize feature to discover new sound.

Xavier
Title: Re: PreenFM2 More Waveforms Like the Ableton Live Operator?
Post by: Xavier on October 11, 2015, 09:05:22 AM
I also like the idea of loading waveform from the USB.
The problem is preset compatibility between preenFM.
But that can be fun.

I try to make a new feature with each new Kits batch.
This one could be for next run  :)

Done in firmware 2.01.  :)
Title: Re: PreenFM2 More Waveforms Like the Ableton Live Operator?
Post by: matrix12x on October 12, 2015, 01:30:31 PM
This is really exciting. I will try this out this week!   :D