PreenFM Forum

PreenFM => PreenFM2 => Topic started by: widdly on August 28, 2014, 02:10:06 PM

Title: More Cowbell
Post by: widdly on August 28, 2014, 02:10:06 PM
Here's how to cook up an 808 cowbell on your preenFM2.

We only need two oscillators in series and no FM, so set the Algo to 2.  Voice to 1.  Glide to 0.  We are not using FM so set all the IM values to 0.  Mix1 and Mix2 to 1, pan in the middle. 

Now for the oscillators..  Op1 has a square wave, Frequency is fixed at 845.  Op2 is also a square wave fixed frequency at 587.

Both op1 and op2 amplitude envelopes are the same.  They have a fast initial decay and a slower decay after that.  The settings are..  Attk 0 lv 1 Deca 0.12 lv 0.22 Sust 0.85 lv 0 Rele 0.91 lv 0

That is pretty much it.  You could add a HP or BP filter if you like .  Also you could spend some time tweaking the envelope times.


Title: Re: More Cowbell
Post by: toneburst on August 28, 2014, 02:25:18 PM
Cool! More 808 (909) recipes, please :) !!

a|x
Title: Re: More Cowbell
Post by: widdly on August 28, 2014, 04:34:58 PM
Ok for a snare...

There are three separate parts to the sound so we will go with Algo 12 which has 3 pairs of fm oscillators. Lots of Velocity sensitivity so you can play ghost notes so set Velo to 16.  1 voic and no glide.  To start with turn all the Mix values to 0 except mix1 set to 1.00.

The first part is the buzzy snare rattle.  It's a noisy sound so we want lots of FM.  Set the IM1 to 5.65.  Go to op1, set the shape to szer.  Fixed freq at 2250Hz.  Set op2 to rand Shape and fixed frequency at 1000.  This should give us a gritty noise sound.

We want a two stage envelope so the volume goes down quickly at first and then slowly.  Set the op1 envelope to Attk 0 lv 1 Deca 0.03 lv 0.44 Sust 0.23 lv 0 Reles 0.44 lv 0.  For op2 we want it on all the time so all the levels to 1.0 and all the times to 0 except the release which should be 1.0.

Now we add the sound of the drum which is kinda like a tom.  We set IM2 and IM3 to 0.  That means there is no FM for these two pairs and we can ignore op4 and op6.  Set mix2 and mix3 to about 0.64.

Set both op3 and op5 to sin shape, fixed frequency at 150 on op3 and 330 and op5.  These have quick clicky envelopes.  For Op3 set Attk 0 lv 1 Deca 0.15 lv 0 Sust 0 lv 0 Rele 0.34 lv 0.  For op5 set Attk 0 lv 1 Deca 0.06 lv 0 Sust 0 lv 0 Rele 0.15 lv 0.

Now we want some pitch modulation on op3 and op5.  Go to Free Env 1 and set it for a very quick decay sound   Attk 0 Deca 0.01 Sust 0 Rel 0.  Set the modulation of pitch of op3 in matrix slot 1  (srce env1 Mult 3 Dest O3Fq).   Set the modulation of pitch of op5 in matrix slot 2 to the same  (srce env1 Mult 3 Dest O5Fq). 

Now we want to set the filter.  I reckon a BP with Freq 0.41 Q 0.12 and Gain 2.00 sounds nice.   That should sound like an old drum machine snare.

Tweak the envelopes, filter cutoff and Mix settings to get a bunch of variations.

Title: Re: More Cowbell
Post by: toneburst on August 28, 2014, 05:31:41 PM
All good info!
I imagine 909-style hats are quite challenging (given Roland gave up on trying to synthesise them, and went for samples, instead).
808-style hats should be doable, though, I'd have thought.
I'll have a go at some analogue-style claps later, if I get a chance.

a|x
Title: Re: More Cowbell
Post by: widdly on August 28, 2014, 05:49:09 PM
You're right.  808 filtered noise hats are pretty easy.   You can get some cool ride type sounds using square waves FM'ing.  I've attached a combo file with some cymbals and a kick and snare. 

Claps are kinda tricky since there is no delay on the start of the envelopes.  You might be able to use a Saw LFO as an amplitude modulator to get the repeated envelope.

I made a quick loop of some Preen drums..

http://soundcloud.com/widdly/preenfm2-drum-demo (http://soundcloud.com/widdly/preenfm2-drum-demo)
Title: Re: More Cowbell
Post by: Xavier on August 28, 2014, 06:22:09 PM
Thanks for this thread  :D

Claps are kinda tricky since there is no delay on the start of the envelopes. 

I'm not sure how you'll try to achieve clap sound but you can add a delay to any enveloppe.
Just set Attk lvl to 0.  And use Decay as Attack, and sustain as decay.
Enveloppes have 4 generic points with target level and duration on each.


I made a quick loop of some Preen drums..
http://soundcloud.com/widdly/preenfm2-drum-demo (http://soundcloud.com/widdly/preenfm2-drum-demo)

Awesome work.... Thanks for sharing.


Title: Re: More Cowbell
Post by: toneburst on August 28, 2014, 07:06:36 PM
@widdly Just got home. I can't seem to get at the kick and snare sounds in your combo. I must be missing something. I downloaded and decompressed you file, then put the Preen into USB stick mode, and dragged the COMBO.cmb to the stick, then restarted the synth. I can load the combo, but I only get hats (very nice, actually) on ch.1, nothing in ch.2 and ch.3, and a more 808-ish hat sound in ch.4.

Sorry if this is a silly question- I'm new to the World of Preen...

a|x
Title: Re: More Cowbell
Post by: martindunne on August 28, 2014, 07:18:48 PM
nice combo great patches cheers
Title: Re: More Cowbell
Post by: toneburst on August 28, 2014, 08:43:04 PM
Oops... I was listening in mono. Didn't realise the kick and snare was a hard-panned to only come out the the output I didn't have plugged in...

Now I have it plugged in properly, it sounds good!

a|x
Title: Re: More Cowbell
Post by: toneburst on August 28, 2014, 11:31:30 PM
Here's my attempt at a handclap sound. Not very convincing.. :(
This is an export from the PreenFM2 editor. Not sure what suffix it should have, though. Is it .syx, or something else?

a|x
Title: Re: More Cowbell
Post by: teevee on August 29, 2014, 01:18:19 AM
Good with some living activity :D *Me like* :D
A shame that PreenFM 2 “only” is 4 multitimbral, would be cool with a full FM drummachine ;)
Title: Re: More Cowbell
Post by: kuzma_p on August 29, 2014, 08:51:38 AM
Here is mine exercise in percussion creation made some time ago

https://www.dropbox.com/s/0yqu00vugel7rg4/PFM2Perc.mp3

All sounds (excepting subbass and high pitched flourish with delay) are PreenFM2

I was suggesting long time ago to make wider modulation range at ModMatrix because existing range was not enough for snappy pitch modulation, via Env1 for example, which is needed for more sharp percussion sounds sometimes.

This time i had to use similar construction in mod matrix to achieve punchy pitch envelope:
            Slot1:     Env1 -- 10.0 -- *OpFrq 
            Slot2-8:  Env1 -- 10.0 -- mx1
Title: Re: More Cowbell
Post by: kuzma_p on August 29, 2014, 09:09:04 AM
To avoid such constructions I have an idea to rip off waldorf blofeld/q modulation modifier section with such operations like *, /, +, OR, AND, XOR

This section could be placed after mod matrix slot
Using existing UI this should look like this:
A        Operation        B
mx1    XOR                 mx1-4 or constant(integer -64...64)

http://synth.stromeko.net/docs/Modifiers.pdf

Then in mod matrix you can select modifier to modulate something:
Modif -- 10.0 -- *IM
Title: Re: More Cowbell
Post by: widdly on August 29, 2014, 09:57:40 AM
@Xavier  Thanks for the delayed envelope idea.  Now you mention I remember seeing that done in a DX7 patch.

@toneburst  I'll have to install the editor so I can try your patch.  I don't have much love for cntrl after the last time I tried it with some other synths.

@kuzma_p  Nice sounds.  You doubled up modulation trick is cool. 

I reckon Waldorf ripped that idea from Kurzweil.  The FUNctions in the k2000 are very similar but have a whole bunch more operations. 
Title: Re: More Cowbell
Post by: teevee on August 29, 2014, 10:01:10 AM
FM can make some very exciting drums, I found this example of a Yamaha FB01
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qd7OU66XE6c

I always had a huge love for older drumsounds like Roland tr-606 and Roland Cr-78 :D

Note: Yamaha FB01 is 4op
Title: Re: More Cowbell
Post by: widdly on August 29, 2014, 10:29:01 AM
 :o  How the &*$# did he get those sounds from that synth?!?
Title: Re: More Cowbell
Post by: toneburst on August 29, 2014, 10:35:25 AM
It's odd, I don't think there ever were any FM drum machines, back in the 80s. Yamaha went straight from making analogue boxes to the sample-based RX series. Even their FM-based home keyboards from that era had sampled drum and percussion sounds.

a|x
Title: Re: More Cowbell
Post by: toneburst on August 29, 2014, 10:40:30 AM
@widdly not sure if you need the editor to try the patch. It might be possible to just transfer it to the USB stick in your PFM2. You might need to add the correct extension to the filename, though.

Incidentally, Xaxier's editor isn't made with CTRL, I don't think, though he did use the same cross-platform GUI library, Juce, hence it looks like a CTRL editor, with the default control graphics.

a|x
Title: Re: More Cowbell
Post by: martindunne on August 29, 2014, 11:02:59 AM
have no idea how to load this clap up tries sysex tried copying to usb?
Title: Re: More Cowbell
Post by: Xavier on August 29, 2014, 11:12:45 AM
Here's my attempt at a handclap sound. Not very convincing.. :(
This is an export from the PreenFM2 editor. Not sure what suffix it should have, though. Is it .syx, or something else?
a|x

Editor export can only be loaded by the editor.

The easiest way to share presets is to switch to booloader mode, press "ENG" and the USB drive should be visible from your computer.
Manage your banks from here (upload /download).
Tip : add "_" (underscore) as first character to make it read-only from the preenfm (check the number of chars is still 8 or less).

You can also save your "DfltCmbo.pfm" file (the default combo which is loaded when you boot).

@kuzma_p is your PFM2Perc.mp3 file pfm2 only ? I really like it.
Title: Re: More Cowbell
Post by: kuzma_p on August 29, 2014, 11:30:54 AM
@Xavier PFM2 + TX81z (subbass) and Blofeld (high pitched phrase with delay)
Title: Re: More Cowbell
Post by: toneburst on August 29, 2014, 12:36:29 PM
@Xavier I see. Is there no file format for individual Preen patches, or can they only be loaded from a monolithic bank file?
Also, is it possible to dump the current patch out of the Preen as sysex?

a|x
Title: Re: More Cowbell
Post by: martindunne on August 29, 2014, 01:06:23 PM
you can dump the current patch to pc using save_syx_Send patch, obviously using c6 or similar. and you can load these patches to preenfm2 using c6 to send it.
Title: Re: More Cowbell
Post by: Xavier on August 29, 2014, 01:12:48 PM
you can dump the current patch to pc using save_syx_Send patch, obviously using c6 or similar. and you can load these patches to preenfm2 using c6 to send it.

Right...

To upload, you can also use C6.
But most DAW allow you to drag and drop a sysex file on a track and will send it to the track output.
Title: Re: More Cowbell
Post by: toneburst on August 29, 2014, 10:32:24 PM
Some variations on widdly's kick and snare patches, plus a couple of hats and some further attempts at clap sounds.
comments welcome.

a|x
Title: Re: More Cowbell
Post by: Xavier on September 01, 2014, 11:29:05 PM
Thanks toneburst for puting that together.

Xavier
Title: Re: More Cowbell
Post by: toneburst on September 01, 2014, 11:44:43 PM
@Xavier No problem. I've had great fun making various bangs and thuds with the PFM, so I'll definitely come back to this when I have a bit more time!

Incidentally, the manual for Waldorf's Rack Attack module has an addendum at the end with tips for creating a variety of analogue-style drum sounds.
http://www.deepsonic.ch/deep/manuals/waldorf_rack_attack_manual.pdf (http://www.deepsonic.ch/deep/manuals/waldorf_rack_attack_manual.pdf)

a|x