preenfm Forum
PreenFM => preenfm2 and preenfm3 => Topic started by: lokki on July 14, 2016, 04:39:28 PM
-
hi there,
when i modulate im* via aftertouch, after a while i can hear a zippering noise from the preenfm2 even when i don't play a note. applying aftertouch without hitting a note (yes i can do that with my controller) varies that noise. at that point also my modulation wheel (set to op* freq in the matrix) is able to change this noise...
has anyone seen/heard this behaviour? i'm on 2.03. this only happens after a while of playing and after extensive use of aftertouch (a lot of data).
-
ok, getting a little further. it seems to be a very low stuck note. when i adjust gliding in a monophonic patch, every note glides from below. i disabled aftertouch on the controller and it is still happening. so i am now thinking it is more a very fast run of notes that somehow triggers this low note. if i send a note off from ableton live with c-2 value (midi note 0) the problem disappears. will look further into this issue. maybe it is my controller that is somehow sending note 0 values, but i doubt it.
-
just writing down my findings, sorry for all the messages.
i tried the same controller with a waldorf pulse and i cannot get any stuck notes from it. so it seems to be an issue with the preenfm. xavier, can you see any reason how very fast runs of notes could get a stuck note with midi pitch 0? i never send a value 0, but when i send a note off with pitch 0 from ableton, the note is released correctly, so it must be midi note 0 that is stuck...
-
and the last message :-)
i can confirm this happens with ableton live sending notes to preenfm2 as well! i created a fast run of notes (multiple times the same note, and also different notes) and when i send it to preenfm2 over usb, i get the same stuck note 0. the notes have to be pretty short to trigger the behaviour. so it could also be that only very short notes trigger the fault.
-
I can test it with octatrack and renoise but i will be able to do this only since next sunday.
-
would be highly appreciated! this makes me crazy...
-
Hi lokki,
I'm not giving much help here, but I can tell you the exact thing happened to me several times, as you describe it in your first post.
I can't remember in which conditions though...
Just to let you know this might not be an isolated bug ;)
-
thanks clément, this is good to hear! so it seems i am not going crazy. as i wrote in my 2nd post i think the source is fast played note runs very staccato and on the same note. at some point the lowest midi note possible (which i never played) gets stuck. if one sets voices to 1 and glide to some amount, every note will glide from below, also a sign of that stuck note. sending a note off for that note (midi note 0) releases the note again. but eventually it happens again. i want to use the preenfm with a midi bass controller (4 channels) and like this it is not useable for live use...so let's hope xavier can fix this.
-
I'll definitely have a look, but not immediately.
My family and I just moved outside Paris and we'll go away a few week.
Best,
Xavier
-
no problem. have a nice holiday! enjoy your family time. if it helps, here is a midi file attached, that triggers the problem sometimes, just play it in a daw with midi output set to preenfm, maybe you have to play it twice or three times, but at some point you will get the low stuck note. play it at 120bpm
-
xavier i ran some more tests, and it does also happen when i set voices to more then one on a channel, but it is not so obvious because there is no gliding then and the noise is much quieter because the stuck voice is only a portion of the whole channel sound. so for best reproducibility try with a mono patch.
-
I played more than ten times your midi file under Linux and in 2 windows DAWs without being able to reproduce.
What firmware do you use ? Overclocked ?
What sequencer/DAW do you use ?
Do you play the midifile directly to the preenfm2 USB ?
If you use the midi jack, what midi interface do you have ?
Last question, does it happen with any preset ?
Thanks
Xavier
-
i am on osx 10.11 , playing the midi file directly to the preenfm usb via ableton live.
but it also happens with my midi controller (without any computer involved, direct midi-din connection)
i therefore don't think it is a daw specific issue. note that most daws (e.g. ableton live) send an all note off event when you stop the clip.
so it may be hard to hear. (best to make the clip longer and let it run some more after the last note has played)
i use the overclocked firmware 2.03o but i tried the non overclocked version 2.03 as well and it still happens.
my midi controller works fine with multiple other hardware and software synths, so i can rule that out as well.
i use the preenfm in multitimbral mode, all 4 channels have loaded the same preset, because my controller sends on 4 channels, it is much like a bass guitar, but midi. presets are all mono. i have tried a bunch of the dx7 presets, i'm sure it happens on the first preset from the dx7 set, i just adjusted it to be mono, with some glide and aftertouch going to im*. i then loaded this preset into all four instrument slots. not all channels get stuck at the same time, if i just play on one channel, only that one will have a stuck note, so there is no crosstalk or something... my preenfm2 is not at my home atm, so i cannot check if it happens with all presets but i am sure it was more then one.
thanks for looking into it. would it help if i post the exact settings of a sound where it happens?
-
Thanks, i'll try with my macbook tomorrow.
I don't think it's a DAW or a controller problem, i'm sure it's a preenfm2 problem.
But i think some DAW or midi interface can filter some fast midi data before the preenfm2 got them although some others just pass them through and make the preenfm2 play those wrong note.
Xavier
-
i will try to reproduce the problem with a puredata patch on linux and osx, do you know puredata (http://msp.ucsd.edu/software.html)? if so i could share the patch and you can try it on your linux machine as well.
-
i will try to reproduce the problem with a puredata patch on linux and osx, do you know puredata (http://msp.ucsd.edu/software.html)? if so i could share the patch and you can try it on your linux machine as well.
Would be great. Let me know if you find something.
-
hi xavier, find attached a puredata patch that makes the preenfm glitch on linux. the startup values make it glitch after about 10 seconds, enable aftertouch (via the toggle) and it will glitch almost instantly. happens with all the presets i tried (dx7, preenfmbank) but only if the attack is short enough to actually make the note sound. it seems to be indeed very short notes that trigger the problem (5ms between noteon and off) or if you have aftertouch going on the notes can also be longer. experiment with the patch. do you need any "assistance" with setting up puredata (midi out and stuff) or are you familiar with it?
thanks again for looking into it!
-
Thanks a lot for the puredata patch.
I can reproduce it... I'll work on that asap.
(In the meantime don't forget that pressing MENU+BACK at the same time, reset the note engine, so this stops the stuck note..).
Xavier
-
xavier,
pheew, good to know you can reproduce it. i am not going crazy :-)
-
This puredata patch is a gem for debuging voice allocation :) Thanks again 8)
I attached a beta firmware that should not play anymore the low frequency ghost note.
Explanation : when a voice is playing and when a new midi note is received, the new note does not start right away (which would create an audio "click").
So the preenfm2 use some time (between 0 and 200 samples depending of the current envelope status) to mute progressively the current note before playing the new one.
With a very short new note, the preenfm2 receives noteOff while the previous note fades out and before the new note is acutally started.
This is where the bug was.
The fix i have for the moment should work in most situation: in case it receives noteOff before the note actully starts, the new note is never played.
Which makes weird behaviour with the posted PD patch (increase a little the note duration and it's fine) but that should work in most real life situation.
Xavier
-
thanks a lot! will try as soon as possible.
also, just a thought...you could make this fadeout process an option, some people really like clicky envelopes :-) (for some bass sounds it is great)
-
ok tried it and i can confirm no more stuck low notes, great! but (there is always a but sorry) i get stuck notes on the ones that i play. it happens once in a while (also with the pd patch) it is not such a bad issue, because you can kill it by playing some more notes (but interestingly they have to have a different pitch).
so half way there i would say :-)
thanks!
EDIT: playing with it some more, i get stuck notes also that i cannot stop anymore...have not found a pattern though.
-
Yep, it's worse than before :(
I'm still on it.
-
If you have time to try this 2.05B3....
That was an other problem of too short notes, when the preenfm2 received the noteOff just after the noteOn without starting the audio between.
These too short notes are now also ignored.
Thanks for your help,
Xavier
-
Lokki's latest message before split :
"xavier, success!!! i cannot make it glitch anymore :-) will play some more with it, and let you know if there is something unusual, but it seems pretty stable to me."
:D