preenfm Forum
PreenFM => preenfm2 and preenfm3 => Topic started by: Xavier on September 17, 2020, 09:12:41 AM
-
Hi everyone,
I think the 2 new PCBs are ready to be tried.
- The new preenfm2 PCB (R6) can make a powerfull cheap FM synth (with LCD Display). Current documentation is here (http://ixox.fr/preenfm2/preenfm/build-pcb-r6-smd/).
- The new preenfm3 adds new features i hope every body will enjoy. And have rooms for improvement in the futur firmwares. Current documentation is here (https://github.com/Ixox/preenfm3/wiki).
Documentation is still a bit weak, and the firwmare likely have bugs.
The forum is here to discuss all problems you may have. And also to report good experience :)
For transport, i'll use the French Collissimo shipping company as i had problems with the regular cheaper one.
This shipping is quite expensive for outside Europe delivery (27€), I'm sorry about that but i cannot do anything.
If you're OK with everything and wants to give a try :
http://ixox.fr/shop/
And if you do, please communicate your experience here.
Thanks a lot for all the enthusiasm around the preenfm2 the last 7 years :)
Xavier
-
The 10 first preenfm3 PCBs have been sold and shipped.
Thanks a lot.
If you haven't received the tracking URL, let me know.
I now have to polish/finish the doc.
And then, I will work on the firmware to fix the bugs reported by the first users :)
If everything goes right, i'll order another (bigger) batch in october.
Have a great week end !
Xavier
-
@Xavier
How does it (either the Preen FM2 R6 PCB or the Preen FM3) sound with the 24 bit DAC? any differences at the lower volume/lower velocity sounds? or on the decay of sounds? Just wondering.
-
Matrix12x,
Yes it makes a big difference.
Here is a bad scenario for the preenfm2 legacy.
All instruments on, 10 voices on instrument 1 ALG6 etc...
I recorded both R5 and R6 in the same conditions, volume was low, i normalized it.
Sorry for the Harsh sound, start at low volume before turning up.
Listen to the decay.
What you can hear in the attached mp3.
5 notes on R5 (legacy 12 + 6 bits DAC)
5 same notes on R6 (new 24 bits DAC).
1 note on R5
1 same note on R6.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1EJnF6NgVepygF3Ai0W8kAJ1igU1b7H1B/view?usp=sharing
And for those who wonders, yes the 13Khz noise wit the yellow oled is still here. The same mod still works.
Put together a preenfm2 new PCB with a cheap LCD display, and you can have a good sounding FM synth for little money.
Xavier
-
24 bits is deep and clear with no noise tail. ill be jumping on this soon. great improvement!
-
Are there any plans to publish pcb file on the github? I want to replace the location of the buttons and their appearance
-
Pfm3 control board PCBs are on github, in the hardware folder :
https://github.com/Ixox/preenfm3
You need Kicad 5 to edit them.
Xavier
-
Perfect!!!!! Big thnx
-
Hi,
I'm interested in this, will there be more boards for sale soon?
-
24 bits is deep and clear with no noise tail..... great improvement!
I agree ;)
I'm interested in this, will there be more boards for sale soon?
New preenfm2 SMD (24 bits) PCBs are in stock.
For the preenfm3, i'll wait for feedbacks of users of the first batch before ordering a new one.
Hopefully mid october, they will be available again.
-
can i retrofit my desktop and my euro version with these? where do i order? :)
any chance i could just upgrade components?
does a 24 bit dac require a different os?
-
Perfect thanks, ill start sourcing and pricing the parts for UK in the mean time :)
-
This concerns preenfm2 R6 PCB (I should have created 2 topics ;) )
can i retrofit my desktop and my euro version with these?
Desktop : yes
Euro : i think no
where do i order? :)
http://ixox.fr/shop/
any chance i could just upgrade components?
The PCB has most components pre soldered.
If you're good at desoldering, you can get the other components out of your previous PCB.
See this to understand :
http://ixox.fr/preenfm2/preenfm/build-pcb-r6-smd/
does a 24 bit dac require a different os?
Yes, it's a totally different DAC with different communication with the STM32.
You need firmware 2.20 or newer.
https://github.com/Ixox/preenfm2/releases
-
Hi - one more question, do you have any info for the 3D printed case for the fm3? I trying to price the cost of this into the build.
Thanks
-
thanks for your response today xavier!
-
item 14 through 19 in the bom for the newest preenfm2 pcb r6 is not available from mouser?
-
item 14 through 19 in the bom for the newest preenfm2 pcb r6 is not available from mouser?
Oh yes you're right.
They are simple 2.54m (0.1") headers.
I added mouser links in the BOM (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Xt8gQqbJvMSSZ3lOPazCrE3Qu6qT4qbJweNDEm-yr78/edit#gid=1283558555)
I've also added pictures in the PCB page (http://ixox.fr/preenfm2/preenfm/build-pcb-r6-smd/).
-
Hi - one more question, do you have any info for the 3D printed case for the fm3? I trying to price the cost of this into the build.
I'll only provide model and files for the 3D printed case.
Will update the github directory with it in the next few days.
-
hi xavier,
from looking at the pictures of the preenfm3 and the BOM it seems there is no "analog" volume control anymore, right?
you wrote about a mixer that you implemented. will master volume be a value to be saved in a preset as well? that would be great. (so a combo sound would store both individual volumes and the master volume)
-
Hi,
from looking at the pictures of the preenfm3 and the BOM it seems there is no "analog" volume control anymore, right?
Correct.
you wrote about a mixer that you implemented. will master volume be a value to be saved in a preset as well? that would be great. (so a combo sound would store both individual volumes and the master volume)
Presets are still presets only as in the preenfm2.
The mixer saves the 6 instrument presets + all the mixer values.
You can see all those values here :
https://github.com/Ixox/preenfm3/wiki/The-Mixer
Yes volume for each instrument is part of them.
-
ok, just to clarify...
those mixer settings can also be recalled by program change messages for example? so that i can recall different sounds/combos with different volumes?
cheers
-
Hey, just got my preenfm3 board in today and have everything assembled, but I'm not seeing anything boot up on the screen when connected to usb power. Is there a certain configuration for the jumpers that I need, or do I need to flash the software?
EDIT:
Got it working. I did have to flash the firmware, but the DFU device wasn't showing up in the recommended program. Instead I just downloaded the zip file and utilized the .cmd files to flash the device. The device powers on and the buttons all seem to work fine.
I'm working on getting the presets on the device so I can start listening to it and testing it out! Looking forward to getting some crazy sounds out of this thing as well as printing out the case!
-
Nice to read that.
One of the first preenfm3 :D
All feedback are very interesting for me.
I expected the DFU flash to be easier, but it does not work in some case.
Do you use Windows 10 ? It seems not to work on older version.
I'm glad you managed to flash with the cmd files, but it's not straightforward with windows.
Your message made me realize i haven't publish the case files yet.
Here is the wiki page I've just put together:
https://github.com/Ixox/preenfm3/wiki/3D-Printing-Enclosure
I'm working on getting the presets on the device so I can start listening to it and testing it out!
Have you unzipped the pfm3.zip file on the SD card ?
You should get some presets available.
-
Sorry I haven't had time to check back on this forum in a bit.
I do have Windows 10, but flashing chips on my computer has always been a problem. It ended up working fine after I ran the cmd which was easy enough. Should be straightforward to upgrade from here using the SD card.
Thanks for those files! I just sent off to have my case printed. Will post back here once I get my case in and have it all assembled.
I did get the presets onboard and they all sound good! I'm working on building some more pads in that have a bunch of motion + modulation. The crazy metal / fm madness preset bank is awesome.
-
xavier,
would you consider a wavetable oscillator? im wondering how close is this to allowing user waveshapes... it would sure update the preen sound and could be used to make oldschool and new school fm based sounds. basically it would open up massive horizons for the sound designer.
ok failing that, what do you think of morphing oscillator shapes? maybe even just a few standard crossfades like sine to square or sine to triangle or sine to saw or saw to square... maybe square to octave square or saw to octave saw or sine to octave sine etc etc
sorry if this makes anyone uncomfortable. im just trying to think of ways to make preenfm3 more unique among fm + midi + desktops, which it is already of course!
-
would you consider a wavetable oscillator? im wondering how close is this to allowing user waveshapes... it would sure update the preen sound and could be used to make oldschool and new school fm based sounds. basically it would open up massive horizons for the sound designer.
User waveshapes is a single wave form.
To have wavetables you need many wave forms with takes much more memory space. And requires a different algo.
ok failing that, what do you think of morphing oscillator shapes? maybe even just a few standard crossfades like sine to square or sine to triangle or sine to saw or saw to square... maybe square to octave square or saw to octave saw or sine to octave sine etc etc
Morphing oscillator shapes ?
I think that's exactly what you get when you modulate FM modulation indices (MI) between operators ?
The waveform of the modulated operator is modified more or less depending on the MI value and on the modulating opererator.
No I don't have plan to add crossfades between waveforms. ;)
-
I received a new batch of PCB.
So they're back in stock in the shop : http://ixox.fr/shop/
Xavier
-
the r6 oled saver times out immediately no matter what its set to.
loving this synth! so easy to get usable stuff and to animate!
-
the r6 oled saver times out immediately no matter what its set to.
What firmware do you use ?
It should be fixed in 2.20.
https://github.com/Ixox/preenfm2/releases
-
cool! it works now. but i had to take the thumb drive out to access it as my win10 computer made the usb drive inserted sound when i tried to enable usb drive access over the preen’s usb port but it never showed up in explorer.
-
also, why can i not pitchbend a full octave? it seems i am only able to bend up to 10 semi tones? this makes it hard to map a pitchbend melody...
-
cool! it works now. but i had to take the thumb drive out to access it as my win10 computer made the usb drive inserted sound when i tried to enable usb drive access over the preen’s usb port but it never showed up in explorer.
What pfm2 bootloader did you install.
I published a 1.12 version which does not work.
Sorry about that, but the "USB access" from the computer should work with 1.11 and 1.13.
1.13 bootloader is included with the latest 2.20 zip file.
-
also, why can i not pitchbend a full octave? it seems i am only able to bend up to 10 semi tones? this makes it hard to map a pitchbend melody...
You can use a second entry with same source and a multipler of 2, they will be added and you'll get the octave.
-
cool! it works now. but i had to take the thumb drive out to access it as my win10 computer made the usb drive inserted sound when i tried to enable usb drive access over the preen’s usb port but it never showed up in explorer.
What pfm2 bootloader did you install.
I published a 1.12 version which does not work.
Sorry about that, but the "USB access" from the computer should work with 1.11 and 1.13.
1.13 bootloader is included with the latest 2.20 zip file.
im talking about the one i bought from ardi. how do you update just the bootloader?
interesting solution for the pitchbend, i prob wouldnt have thought of that!
-
@solipsvs I moved your latest message here :
http://ixox.fr/forum/index.php?topic=69716.0
Because i think flashing the bootloader deserve its own thread for the futur.
-
I’ve just noticed the preenfm3 controlboard has been revised. I was about to buy parts to build the fm3 having just received boards. Are there any hacks or different parts needed on the old boards? (I’m happy desoldering/using kynar wire on smt so if there is any benefit in hacking the old board I’m happy doing it - I havent compared the old and new schematics yet...)
-
I’ve just noticed the preenfm3 controlboard has been revised. I was about to buy parts to build the fm3 having just received boards. Are there any hacks or different parts needed on the old boards? (I’m happy desoldering/using kynar wire on smt so if there is any benefit in hacking the old board I’m happy doing it - I havent compared the old and new schematics yet...)
Controlboards are all 100% compatible (unless one day i announce a different one) and the components are at the exact same place.
Preenfm3 firmware has evolved and the new one has correct labels on the button (MENU=>SEQ). An other small aesthetic change.
-
Does anyone know what power cable / vc to use for the preenfm3? I'm getting a ground loop noise using my usb cable and want to switch to external power.
-
Does anyone know what power cable / vc to use for the preenfm3? I'm getting a ground loop noise using my usb cable and want to switch to external power.
USB power goes directly to the VCC so it can be very noisy.
Must be a 9V DC / 1A (min) / center positive
Like this (https://www.amazon.fr/SunTop-Alimentation-Adaptateur-100V-240V-Convertisseur/dp/B07FC7JMBL/ref=sr_1_7)
Center positive logo is visible here (https://itp.nyu.edu/physcomp/lessons/electronics/understanding-dc-power-supplies/)
-
hi xavier,
would it be possible to publish a pdf file of the top (and ideally back) part of the case? i will make my own case from wood and aluminium and could use a drilling template. or are there any free programs to export the stl files to pdf? some online tools i tried failed to produce any result.
-
Does anyone know what power cable / vc to use for the preenfm3? I'm getting a ground loop noise using my usb cable and want to switch to external power.
check this product out:
https://hifimediy.com/product/usb-isolator/?fbclid=IwAR0bWtLYyGQYA68oXOtW8dP9BhypuCLzFdQptIXVVbgeHzc_OUXcQgCNSO4
-
Hi,
Please forgive me if I'm posting this in the wrong place, but when are the next round of FM3 boards going to be available and if there is some way that I might be alerted when they are?
-
Hi,
That's totally the right place :)
Here's a message i posted on Facebook last week:
FYI, The 5 PCBs i have will be available after i make sure they work as expected.
Send me an email/PM if you're interested.
Where are the preenfm3 PCBs ?
Here are some clarifications.
The PCB manufacturer of the 2 first batches has a shortage of DAC (digital analog converter / 3 pieces required per preenfm3), and is unable to say when they're back in stock.
I used another manufacturer (slower and more expensive) for a very small batch (5 PCBs) 3 weeks ago and the package should arrive early next week.
If everything goes as expected, i'll order a bigger batch from them, so preenfm3 PCBs should be available in 3 or 4 weeks.
And after that, they will be in stock hopefully for good. The good news is that during this time, the firmware has been improved
Thanks
-
FYI, The 5 PCBs i have will be available after i make sure they work as expected.
They work as expected so they are available in the shop.
http://ixox.fr/shop/