Messages

1

preenfm2 and preenfm3 / Re: Which parameters on DX7?

« on: January 15, 2016, 08:15:04 AM »

So Xavier. I am SO very, very happy with your incredible sounding synth. It is truly amazing. It sounds huge. But I am unsure why. The other day I played the Korg Mod-7 engine in an over $2000 Kronos synthesizer, and I was sure to find each and every effect and turn it off. And to my ears, the Preen wins on all fronts. It sounds much more immediate, direct, and real, 3D, while the hyper expensive FM sounded 2D, software, fake, like a softsynth. But the Preen sounds like hardware. Why? They are BOTH just software on a single DSP, right? So why does the Preen sound good? Comparing it to classic Yamaha FM, the Preen sounds CLASSIC. But from a technical perspective, why? 

2

preenfm2 and preenfm3 / Re: Which parameters on DX7?

« on: January 13, 2016, 09:29:45 PM »

If so, I wonder why the Preen sounds so damn good. It sounds anything but flat. I wonder, could it be in the amp stage that some wonderful distortion gets introduced?

3

preenfm2 and preenfm3 / Re: Which parameters on DX7?

« on: January 12, 2016, 07:18:43 PM »

Another question. I really, really love how the Preen sounds, it has totally gotten me into FM synthesis. I am using it with a Korg 707, an old 4op with the same chip as the Yamaha Tx81z, just better interface. So I started to look for some other FM or digital synths to complement this, but I noticed some sound very flat next to these. The Yamaha Dx200 was very flat, even though it is 6op FM, also I played a Korg Kronos FM engine, also really flat, no depth to the sound. Both sound like soft synths (and since the Korg Kronos is a DSP running software rather than something using chips, I guess it is almost the same as a softsynth).

My question is what makes the 707 and the Preen sound so thick and 3D, and when the oscillators go in and out of phase, so rich, that the others do not do? I know the 707 is 16 bit and the Preen is 18 bit, so it does not seem like it is a DAC issue, so could it be clock rate? I hear the Yamaha SY series, which has some nice features, is 16 bit but a much slower clock rate for the lookup tables, and someone said this makes the sound have less 'punch,' maybe that is what I heard as flatness on the Dx200.

4

preenfm2 and preenfm3 / Re: Which parameters on DX7?

« on: January 10, 2016, 08:20:21 AM »

holding INST while turning the encoder helps a lot, thank you! I think the other things are making more sense now too. thanks for the help! and it REALLY sounds amazing, such an incredible synth. thanks so much!

5

preenfm2 and preenfm3 / Re: Which parameters on DX7?

« on: January 08, 2016, 11:59:59 PM »

Looking at the Wikipedia entry on FM and Chowning's original paper, it seems that the basic pattern of the sideband distribution is determined by the freq ratio, but the number of sidebands increases with increase of IM. Since this is done by increasing the amp of the modulator, it controls both brightness and the number of sidebands, hence the depth but not shape of the new timbre, since the shape is done more by freq ratio. And the envelope would then control the slope between minimum of 0 and maximum of 1 of the IM. Yes?

If this is right, it would seem a division into timbre and brightness on Yamaha PM in the DX line would be a simplification for programming purposes. I read something about pitch stability and self-oscillation signal dropout as well.

I also noticed that when I modulate the IM by larger numbers by an LFO or envelope, it sounds phasey and strange, but less so at small modulations, is this because of phase cancellations?

I am still confused as to why it takes so many encoder turns to cover the full domain of IM from 0-16 starting from 0, is IM not meant to be in high ranges?

6

preenfm2 and preenfm3 / Re: Which parameters on DX7?

« on: January 08, 2016, 11:46:44 PM »

I am still confused. On the DX, frequency ratio is timbre, modulator op amp level is brightness, and envelope simply modulates modulator op amp (brightness).   

The Preen seems to work really differently. If you set IM to 0 and mod envelope sustain to 1, you hear nothing from the modulator, so the envelope is not merely modulator amplitude with 0=nothing and 1=full modulator amplitude. But when you raise the IM it seems to change not only brightness (like on the DX) but also timbre, yet differently from that done by the freq ratio. 

So when you say that "the IM is a multiplier between operators depending on the frequency of the operators," what does it exactly multiply, and how does it do this in relation to the envelope?

Also it takes MANY turns of the encoder to go between 0-16 on the Preen, which makes me think it unusual that you'd use the higher values, and looking through the presets seems to confirm this. How to best think of what these values are doing?

Thanks!

7

preenfm2 and preenfm3 / Re: Which parameters on DX7?

« on: January 07, 2016, 11:54:48 AM »

So the IM on the Preen roughly corresponds to something like modulator amp on the DX?

More importantly, how do IM and the operator envelopes for modulators interact on the Preen?

(and I must admit, I don't really know what he's talking about with the differences between phasing, chorusing/flanging, wahing, beating techniques).

8

preenfm2 and preenfm3 / Which parameters on DX7?

« on: January 07, 2016, 09:11:18 AM »

I'm reading Howard Massey's great book "The Complete DX7" to better learn FM. It's really great! But I'm confused on what some of the parameters are called on a DX7 versus a PreenFM2.

On the DX, he keeps talking about coarse freq (op freq on Preen, but it goes to 31 rather than 16?), but then he talks about operator amplitude which goes to 100 on the DX. There's IM, which seems to be modulator amp, which goes to 16 on the Preen. But then there's the envelope, which I think modulates this same parameter between 0 and 1, and I'm not really sure how these interact.

Massey says when you have a 1:1 freq ratio between carrier and modulator and 100 modulator amp (full IM?), you should get a saw wave, and 2:1 and 70 amp (about 10 IM?), you get a square wave. I've been able to get the square wave and something saw-like, and the pulse mod exercises he explains, but more when IM is closer to 6 and envelopes are static. He then describes detuning particular operators in particular algorithm configs as creating beating, phasing, wah-ing, and (if you use audio level fixed freq carrier) as phasing. I'm not sure I hear all the differences between these. I'm curious how much these differences are due to those between FM on the Preen and PM on the DX, or that I'm doing something wrong. 

Any help on translating between these two interfaces?

Btw, the Preen sounds AMAZING, such a cool synth, which is why I want to understand all this better. Thanks so much for a great synth!

9

preenfm2 and preenfm3 / Anyone able to compare Preen with TX802?

« on: December 02, 2015, 06:21:09 PM »

So I'm curious if the PreenFM2 replaces or more complements some of the classic Yamaha gear. I know the Preen loads DX7 patches, and the original DX7 is 12bit, which sounds a little muddy to my ears. But how does the SOUND on the Preen compare to the DX7II/TX802? I know the Yamahas allow intermediate feedback values, but I've also read on here that this often is not a huge deal, but I do know that technically these are diff types of synthesis, but how much are they identical when trying to do the same things (ie: loading DX7 patches)? Perhaps also the Preen's newer parts impact the sound, I know this is often the case on analog gear, not sure if that matters here, but are the D/A converters same spec and all, or does the Preen and DX7II/TX802 sound basically identical?

I have none of these synths currently, so I'm curious what people who do think. Does it make sense to get both, or does a Preen make classic Yamaha gear unneccesary? Thanks!