PreenFM mk2 : Continuing the discussion from the Mutable Instruments forum

[randy]

I agree, very nice. That is not too much more complicated than the Shruthi programmer. It really depends on whether or not Xavier can include a spot to hook it all into.

Thanks for taking a run at this Funkyfli. In my future I see a Preenfm and an Ambika in one custom box controlled from a single keyboard.  Wow, what a synth!

Randy

[funkyfli]

Thanks    But I had a rethink.    The big problem with getting a useful hardware programmer for an FM synth is knowing the flow of operators.  So, I had an idea and this is what I want... 74 knobs and 8 buttons!  And red LED arrows that light up to point the way 

[randy]

I'm thinking a compromise may be in order.

Randy

[Fitvideo]

Jellinghaus

[Xavier]

Thanks    But I had a rethink.    The big problem with getting a useful hardware programmer for an FM synth is knowing the flow of operators.  So, I had an idea and this is what I want... 74 knobs and 8 buttons!  And red LED arrows that light up to point the way 

74 knobs.... 
I think i prefer the other one.
This one would be great if the red flow arrow would light on and off depending on the current algo.
But that would start looking like a VST UI ;-)

[Xavier]

Just noticed that was what you already had in mind   
"  And red LED arrows that light up to point the way "

[funkyfli]

I'm willing to compromise    Just keep the Operators and the Algorithm control... only 53 knobs!!!  I think I might be discovering WHY there is no good hardware FM editor.    It would be cheaper to invest in a giant touchscreen.

[randy]

Xavier, there's a thread on Muff's talking about FM synthesis, might be worth monitoring:

http://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=73562

Randy

[Xavier]

Xavier, there's a thread on Muff's talking about FM synthesis, might be worth monitoring:
http://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=73562
Randy

Thanks... might be a very interesting thread to follow.

Xavier

[randy]

In another interesting FM-related discussion, John Chowning is a member of Muff's and has taken part in this thread:

http://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1018792#1018792

Someone asked him what his favourite FM algorithm was, and he posted a picture, kinda cool.  Not sure if everyone knows who John Chowning is but do a little bit of research, he is a genius.

On second thought, it might not really be him.  Stay tuned...

Randy

[Xavier]

Does seem to be the real John Chowning.
Too bad.... ;-)

Xavier

[6581punk]

What FM editors need is two modes. The RAW edit mode where you have the full power of FM exposed and a more friendly interface where there is some sort of translation layer.

For the translation layer you would load a bass preset (for example) and then tweak it using parameters with more friendly terms, then the raw settings would get changed behind the scenes.

[funkyfli]

  I think the reason a good editor is hard to create is that each operator plays a significant role in the sound and a different role depending on the algorithm.  In the subtractive sense, an operator takes the part of an oscillator, a filter, an output amplifier, a wave shaper or an lfo and could also be only one of many.  To limit an editor to one operator at a time is like limiting an editor to only one of those parts at a time.
  I'm not sure you could improve the PreenFM editor much at all without adding a significant amount of knobs.  It's quite easy to use with a printout of the algorithms in hand.  Though, eight knobs might be a bit better than four. 
  For a 'transition layer' you'd have to determine what operator played what part and was important based on the output.  Sounds like a significant amount of work. 

[6581punk]

  For a 'transition layer' you'd have to determine what operator played what part and was important based on the output.  Sounds like a significant amount of work. 

True, but it is the one thing that keeps people on subtractive and makes them scared of FM.

It's too complex for ordinary people.

[6581punk]

What I would do in terms of a translation layer or different editing interface is have starting points, string, lead, bass, organ and so on. Then have tonal parameters, harmonics etc.