really wish preenfm3 was aiming for something more than preenfm2

[solipsvs]

with more power to play around with, many upgrades would be possible making the preenfm experience closer to what you could easily buy on the market.  im talking about wavetables or at least harmonically rich morphable waveforms.  this sort of thing goes a long way towards texture and movement.  static waves are ok for a static sound reminiscent of the dx7 or old yamaha stuff.  however this is just not how music sounds these days.  there are many things possible but they dont convey harmonic richness in any but a few well known ways weve been listening to since the 80s.  i think the fm capabilities of preenfm would benefit from modern digital waveforms and could also do the older style sounds.  i would also love to see the effect/filter side of preenfm3 grow.  a dual filter with awesome saturations might be nice.

in my opinion, preenfm3 is worth some sort of extended capability.  why have a new version that doesnt go much beyond the previous offering?  if the goal is to attract new customers, perhaps its a worthy pursuit?  unless youre aiming for the same type of user, which arguably would already know of preenfm2 and either has one or has ruled it out.

preenfm2/3 has great bones.  modulation, multitimbrality, form/size, usb, bus power, midi control, din, random, great screen, amazing 24 bit precision... now it just needs more/betterer osc and filter/fx to fit todays methods.  yeah im saying compete with stuff like blofeld since youre in the price range together.  reign in the processes that make modern fm a joy to use to author unique sounds.  dont make it a wavetable synth that does fm, make it an fm synth that has wavetable oscillators.  the same level of character is just not attainable with static waveforms. unison will help however!

make this appeal to more types of producers while keeping those interested in its current capability.  and if youre upset by me saying these things, dont be.

[mgd]

> im talking about wavetables or at least harmonically rich morphable waveforms.

I think this request is a red hering. See this post https://yamahasynth.com/forum/differences#reply-21999
in the yamaha synth forum which IMO clarifies that arbitrary (especially harmonic rich) waveforms used as input to FM most of the time creates noise. There is a reason Yamaha does no longer use that for their current FM engine. And the reason is not that they could not do it

Kind regards,
Michaeel

[solipsvs]

this is how argon8 does it.  this is how virus does it.  this is how serum does it.  this is how literally every eurorack module does it.  this is how mc707 does it.  this is how blofeld and every other waldorf does it.  im sure theres many others.  shall i go on?  have you just not been paying attention?  if youre an old fart, just wait a few years and then youll want this mojo too.  its probably just not on your radar yet but have patience.  or maybe you dont listen to current music? 

[solipsvs]

not to mention, those who do it this way are not mixing waves together that dont produce a nice tone, and im not suggesting you should.  its usually waves that are reminiscent of simple waves that work the best btw.  its also much easier to modulate a sine like carrier with a harmonically rich modulator.  of course the other parts of the synth architecture are important to the result as well.  fm these days is used with modulation, filters and distortions and effects to make something that goes beyond simple fm as weve known it since the late 70s. 

btw dissonance and noise are a good thing, you dont agree?

[lokki]

Sounds like what you are after is not a FM synth, but a standard wavetables or substraction synth with the ability to FMing the two or three main oscillators. this is how serum and blofeld do it. serum and blofeld are no FM synth a, they just have the ability to phase modulate one oscillators phase with the output of another oscillator.
Not the same thing really.

That being said, I would love a serum/massive/vital as hw synth, but I doubt preenfm3 will be it. Maybe waldorf iridium? Or as you mentioned a blofeld if you are on a budget.

[solipsvs]

i have them.  not iridium tho.

fm is fm.  am i wrong?  what is superior about one fm over the other?. one can be quite animated and rich with more frames while the other is only either stabby or paddy, sounds like the typical bell or tine or something on the edge of filthy but never quite gets as animated as sounds built with wavetables.  i mean you can get usable stuff from preenfm, but like the title of the thread, i wish 3 would offer a good bit more than 2 as a natural progression in the line.  it seems a wasted opportunity for the only incentive to buy 3 to be everything but the synth engine because that part is the same as 2.  you can load basic waveforms into any of those synths and get a very similar result to preenfm.  one has more ‘operators’ but who is a genius programmer and uses all 6 operators in their patches?  more operators does not make a superior sound imho especially if you can use a synth multitimbrally

[vurt]

Would absolutely buy a preenfm3 if it was a bit more different than preenfm2.. wavetables can be awesome.
On that note i think all FM synths sounds quite different from each other and each offer something where it does something more or less well.
I do favor the PreenFM2 over my Digitone, they sound nothing alike. Yes i could most likely do similar sounds if i make more simplistic ones.
I don't think Preen sounds similar to DX7 either, or that Serum is superior for everything and i can just use that for every sound. I've had eurorack synths like e352 and it does wavetables+fm but the sound wasn't for me.

There's no such thing as THE Analog synth that has everything and you can just stop there, same with FM synths. At least not if you care about range. But sure i understand what you mean.. I also do understand that this seems to be one developer while many other FM synths have a big company and a team behind them, for those i do expect more.

Xavier has proven to be an awesome developer who supports and expands his work ton, that alone has made me a believer in his products. Certainly something i will follow for years to see where it's going.

[Xavier]

yeah im saying compete with stuff like blofeld since youre in the price range together.

Reminder : what i propose are only DIY kits from which you can build a preenfm for cheaper. But ok that's not the main subject of this thread.

The resources to develop the preenfm are very limited :
. time : couple of hours a day when my main Job and my family life allow it.
. CPU / MCU : I use well documented and easy to program components (STM32F4 / STM32H7 MCU). But limited DSP power and very little RAM.
. budget : i have to make small PCBs batches. No marketing, no doc writer, no salesmen.

There's no chance it can compete with the latest Korg or Modal Electronics synths in their area.
But i hope it makes its own FM synthesis that some users will like.

So the preenfms will likely remain pure FM synths.
I'm very happy with the result today and it's far beyound i could imagine when i start.
I don't dream of any massive success.
And i'll continue only because i love that
And not having any pressure is part of the pleasure.

[solipsvs]

im saying the fm process is the same if you feed it static waveforms or animated ones, and the difference between those two is obvious.  the basic fm process will produce predictable results until you switch up the variables and throw in a z axis at the operator level.  but then a whole universe opens to the sound designer!  is it a challenge? well...  yeah!

xavier i assume you liked the idea of a challenge when you made a synth?

well thats too bad.  i love the form and size and control and would love to use a synth by an independent but i dont know if my intended goals (bass wise) can coincide with your visions of static waveforms and to justify the usb audio and midi cabling as well as desktop space, i need my gear to do more sonically.  i do think preenfm2 is a killer product if you want the type of thing it does well.  its almost a shame to pass this verdict because it really works well.  i just cant help but wish for more easy animation every time i use it.