envelopes: to click or not to click that is the question

[lokki]

xavier, reading through your explanations in the stuck note thread again, i wanted to ask why you implemented the click free behaviour in the first place (in this form)?

normally synths click when attack or decay is very short, this (at least for me) is expected and desired behaviour. could the fadeout process you noted (between 0-200 samples) not only happen when attack or decay are longer then a certain amount? for example with an attack of 20ms you could use some of the 20ms to fadeout the previous note. for an attack of 0-5ms (0 does not exist, but you get the idea) there would be no fading whatsoever)

i just think clicky envelopes are a very nice sound to have and others agree :-) here is a good read: http://faq.waldorfian.info/faq-browse.php?product=ar

[Xavier]

I'm not sure we talk about the same click.

Open timbre.cpp and replace the 2 occurences of  "noteOnWithoutPop" by "noteOn".
Load a soft sound with soft attack. Preen.bnk > 8-B Organ
Set number of voices to 2.
Now,  press A B C D E F G on your keyboard, without releasing any note.
At C and after, you'll hear the click.

I don't think this is something you want.

[lokki]

ok, tried it.

sorry for the confusion, those clicks are indeed not what i meant 

but this was a good post of yours nevertheless because it made me realize i was thinking that the attack and decay of all notes were always faded, and all the presets i started to modify where sounds that did not click on attack. so my conclusion was that the preenfm cannot click on attack. now i tried and made some sounds from scratch with the editor and indeed it can click!! so thanks, and sorry for the noise.

[Xavier]

No problem, that was a very interesting reading.

I didn't even know the name of that kind of clicks : "note stealing clicks".

> "Some japanese manufacturers (I don't say names here) prevent voice stealing clicks by fading out voices slowly before they start new notes. "

That's exactly what i do, during 6 * 32 samples, which add 5ms of latency when a note "steal" the voice of an other note.
The guy concludes it leads to "very bad MIDI timing".
I never heard anyone complaining about that.
But i think many would complain about the "stealing clicks" 

[lokki]

That's exactly what i do, during 6 * 32 samples

is the fading time handled in env.h? (ca. line 190) i saw that you changed it in beta 2.05b3. and because there is a 6 in it i thought i ask i also changed the 6 to 2 and 1 and could not really hear a difference (with my monoponic patches)

Code: [Select]

void noteOffQuick(struct EnvData* env) {
        env->envState = ENV_STATE_ON_QUICK_R;
        newState(env);

        int duration = 6*env->currentValue ;

        if (duration == 0) {
                stateInc[ENV_STATE_ON_QUICK_R] = 1.0f;
        } else {
                stateInc[ENV_STATE_ON_QUICK_R] = 1.0f / (float)duration;
        }


[Xavier]

is the fading time handled in env.h? (ca. line 190) i saw that you changed it in beta 2.05b3. and because there is a 6 in it i thought i ask i also changed the 6 to 2 and 1 and could not really hear a difference (with my monoponic patches)

Yes that's it.
I changed it from 8 to 6 while playing with your pure data patch as it minimised the number of ignored notes.
I remember having patches where i could hear the difference between 8 and 4.

[lokki]

hi xavier,

following up on this.

is there a way to disable the stealing fade (replace noteonWithoutPop wit noteon) and still have glide mode working?

thanks!